strategies

[Carles]

Hi,

But regardless of all of us know and think that our applications made with fwh for windows are the best, reliable, ... (and it's true of course ) and as Tim says many expect the truth is that many have the concern and need to start offering solutions via the Internet. This is the reality

And the title of this topic is ... strategies.

And continuing with my initial questions ... Here are the following:

Do we want to learn and to be experts in the different languages of the different platforms of the market?

- Android with java
- iOS with swift
- Web with java, php, html, css, javascript, and a lot of framekorks ... (hundreds of them)

Are we able to take on so much knowledge to control all this?

My answer is: If we are a big company and we have many employees, and each of them is an expert in one of these technologies ... maybe we can. Easy !

Meanwhile, , if we are software developers... what can we do?

Are we still waiting and listening ?

Nice weekend friends.

[cmsoft]

Es un tema muy amplio e interesante.
Pero como dice Carles, es muy duro (si somos desarrolladores independientes), asumir el costo y el esfuerzo de asimilar todo ese conocimiento.
También comparto con Tim y Mr. Rao, que hay usuarios que prefieren (por su practicidad) el uso de sistemas de escritorio para procesamiento y carga de grandes volúmenes de datos (por la practicidad de resolver en una pantalla varios procesos).
Pero por experiencia, los nuevos usuario requieren que cierta información pueda ser consultada desde su teléfono móvil, su tablet, o desde una página desde su casa.
He optado por comenzar con desarrollos híbridos (parte en FiveWin, parte php con algún Framework, en mi caso Laravel) con bases de datos MySql. Y la experiencia fue muy buena. Conviven de maravilla, y la inversión de tiempo para aprenderlo no fue tan grande. Y como en este foro, hay mucha información y mucha gente dispuesta a ayudar en la web.
Lejos me siento de ser un experto de ninguna de las dos cosas, pero los resultados que he conseguido me han permitido dar una solución un poco más amplia.
Y creo que como ESTRATEGIA, que es el tema en cuestión, la mejor es la ALIANZA. Aliarnos con personas que están dispuestas a aportar, de la misma manera que nosotros, sus conocimientos en cada tema. Se que no es un tema fácil, pero la práctica me dice que se puede. He tercerizado el montaje de servidores web con gente experta en ese tema, tercerizado el desarrollo de aplicaciones Android, el diseño e imágenes, el marketing digital, etc. Y todos convivimos de manera ordenada. Y todos recibimos la remuneración por nuestros conocimientos y nuestro trabajo.
También creo que es importante transmitir a nuestros clientes y usuarios, que un desarrollo de ese estilo tiene su costo.
Esa es mi humilde opinión.
Un abrazo para todos y larga vida a FiveWin.

Google traslator

It is a very broad and interesting topic.
But as Carles says, it is very hard (if we are independent developers), to assume the cost and the effort to assimilate all that knowledge.
I also share with Tim and Mr. Rao, that there are users who prefer (for their practicality) the use of desktop systems for processing and loading large volumes of data (for the convenience of solving several processes on a screen).
But from experience, new users require that certain information can be consulted from your mobile phone, your tablet, or from a page from your home.
I have chosen to start with hybrid developments (part in FiveWin, part php with some Framework, in my case Laravel) with MySql databases. And the experience was very good. They have a great time, and the investment of time to learn it was not so great. And as in this forum, there is a lot of information and many people willing to help on the web.
I am far from being an expert of either, but the results I have achieved have allowed me to give a slightly broader solution.
And I think that as a STRATEGY, which is the issue in question, the best is the ALLIANCE. Partner with people who are willing to contribute, in the same way that we, their knowledge in each subject. I know it's not an easy subject, but practice tells me that you can. I have outsourced the assembly of web servers with experts in this area, outsourcing the development of Android applications, design and images, digital marketing, etc. And we all live in an orderly manner. And we all receive compensation for our knowledge and our work.
I also believe that it is important to convey to our clients and users that a development of that style has its cost.
That is my humble opinion.
A hug for all and long life to FiveWin.

[Otto]

Cesar may I ask if you have looked at TWeb.
I used php with the Symfony framework for a program.
But then I decided that until I get comfortable with PHP to use pure PHP only.
Now that I'm getting comfortable with PHP I see that I have a need for a framework.
For me I think TWeb is the best choice.
Best regards,
Otto

[cmsoft]

Otto.
Si, he mirado Tweb y me parece una excelente herramienta, que por falta de tiempo no he podido mirar mas a fondo.
Creo que tiene algo que es sumamente atractivo: la similitud con la forma de trabajar que estamos acostumbrados los que desarrollamos aplicaciones de escritorio.
Vi esa flexibilidad en Sencha. (http://www.sencha.com) en su formato de desarrollo web tipo desktop (https://examples.sencha.com/extjs/6.7.0 ... c/desktop/). Solo vi el resultado, no he visto la forma de trabajo que se requiere para hacerlo funcionar.
Creo que esa es mi idea de trabajo en web. Y sin dudas TWeb tiene un gran parecido a lo que imagino.

Google traslator
Otto
Yes, I have looked at Tweb and it seems to me an excellent tool, that for lack of time I have not been able to look more thoroughly.
I think it has something that is extremely attractive: the similarity with the way of working that we are accustomed those who develop desktop applications.
I saw that flexibility in Sencha. (http://www.sencha.com) in its desktop-like web development format (https://examples.sencha.com/extjs/6.7.0/examples/classic/desktop/). I only saw the result, I have not seen the way of work that is required to make it work.
I think that's my idea of ​​working on the web. And without a doubt, TWeb bears a strong resemblance to what I imagine.

[Prodix]

Estimados,
Quiero comentar la experiencia que tuve hace poco con un proyecto web, el cual pude cumplir satisfactoriamente gracias a la herramienta de nuestro colega Lailton: Fiveweb. Tengo conocimientos precarios de PHP y creí que con un curso completo de Sistemas Web podría desarrollar el proyecto, pero al primer error de mi sistema quedé atascado, también intenté hacerlo con la excelente herramienta Tweb del amigo Carles, pero lamentablemente debido al tiempo apretado y mis deficientes conocimientos en MVC y PHP quedé impotente. Pero si pude desarrollarlo con la herramienta Fiveweb y la ayuda siempre pronta de Lailton. Espero mi experiencia sea de utilidad a alguien.

[Rick Lipkin]

To All

Yes .. everyone seems to want a web application and then wish they still had the ease and simplicity of a desktop app. In my case I see so many large companies and state and local governments moving towards Web apps and spending millions and years of development with nothing to show for it :

A THREE-DECADE DEBACLE …
Familiar with the debacle involving the S.C. Department of Social Services (SCDSS) child support enforcement database?

If you are a Palmetto State taxpayer, you should be.

We last reported on this multi-million dollar disaster back in November … and our sources at the agency say things haven’t gotten any better since then.

To recap: In 1988 the federal government mandated the creation of a centralized computer system to monitor child support payments – and gave states ten years to set up their networks. Not only did South Carolina fail to get its system up and running on time, but by 2006 it was the only state in the nation still lacking such a database – an ongoing failure which has resulted in the accumulation of tens of millions of dollars in fines.

This failure has cost the state $145 million in project costs – and $135 million in fines.

With nothing to show for it … and no end in sight.

This failure is sad … but not surprising.

SCDSS has been an unmitigated disaster Haley took office in 2011 – most notably as it relates to multiple instances in which vulnerable children were repeatedly placed in abusive homes.

But the agency’s failure is much bigger and broader than that – even after Haley was forced to fire her first “rock star” agency director.

Earlier this year, a group of technology providers offered to fix the agency’s botched child support system – asking only a fraction of the annual fines assessed by the federal government.

In other words, getting paid was dependent on them fixing the program.

SCDSS officials declined the offer.

Why? Let’s delve into that …

According to reporter Tim Smith of The Greenville News, South Carolina taxpayers can expect to shell out another $63 million in federal fines before the new system is operational in October of 2018.

Program costs for the new system are expected to top $140 million – with estimated annual maintenance costs of $18 million (compared to $1 million annually for the modern database the agency rejected).

In other words, having already flushed $280 million down the drain … for nothing … taxpayers are now on the hook for another $200 million (and nearly $20 million annually).

Add it all up and we’re talking about a half-billion dollar debacle …

and what about security .. remember the Equifax data hack that penetrated their web portal ..

As the security community processes the news and scrutinizes Equifax's cybersecurity posture, numerous doubts have surfaced about the organization's competence as a data steward. The company took six weeks to notify the public after finding out about the breach. Even then, the site that Equifax set up in response to address questions and offer free credit monitoring was itself riddled with vulnerabilities. And as security journalist Brian Krebs first reported, a web portal for handling credit-report disputes from customers in Argentina used the embarrassingly inadequate credentials of "admin/admin." Equifax took the platform down on Tuesday. But observers say the ongoing discoveries increasingly paint a picture of negligence—especially in Equifax's failure to protect itself against a known flaw with a ready fix.

A 'Relatively Easy' Hack
The vulnerability that attackers exploited to access Equifax's system was in the Apache Struts web-application software, a widely used enterprise platform.....

Experian Forecasts the Top 5 Data Breach Predictions for 2019

4. Cloud Breach
It's a matter of when, not if, a top cloud vendor breach will occur, compromising the sensitive information of major companies. The only question is how long it will take hackers to go to the cloud, affecting the world's largest companies and potentially billions of pieces of data.

I have stayed away from developing web applications .. I prefer corporate client-server SQL windows applications that run behind a company's firewall .. yet, when you talk to most CIO's .. web apps are where they spend the most time a development dollars ..

All I can do is shake my head .. as the above Cloud breach prediction .. not a matter of when .. it will happen .. and when do we learn from the principal of insanity ..


If you haven't noticed .. there is a BIG push for new security concerns against the big tech companies .. Google, Facebook and the discussions of bringing a GDPR ( like ) legislation to the United States .. How much would or should have Equifax been fined in the EU for their massive data breach .. 10 million , 20 million or more .. if GDPR becomes the global standard .. do you think people will continue to create vulnerable web applications ?

If you put your data out on the web .. they will come!

Rick Lipkin

[Carles]

Hi Rick !

Yes .. everyone seems to want a web application and then wish they still had the ease and simplicity of a desktop app. In my case I see so many large companies and state and local governments moving towards Web apps and spending millions and years of development with nothing to show for it :

But you will agree with me that nowadays many businesses or companies need the capacity of the web so that their clients, users, employees ... can interact in some way. It's not true ?

and what about security .. remember the Equifax data hack that penetrated their web portal ..

This is true and it is a big problem: security. Another day we will talk about this topic ...

I have stayed away from developing web applications .. I prefer corporate client-server SQL windows applications that run behind a company's firewall .. yet, when you talk to most CIO's .. web apps are where they spend the most time a development dollars ..

The corporate applications are the ones that we control perfectly. But this thread is for fwh programmers who are somehow forced to jump to the web for any reason. Search strategies ... What is the best? What is the best way to adapt? Obviously we can always resist temptations such as jumping to the web

Data protection is a very important issue but it should not serve as an excuse to continue investigating all together and try to find the best solution so that we are able to find the best strategy to jump to the web

In short I would say ... To the programmers who want to make the jump to the web, don't be afraid. It is difficult, but we have many years of experience in programming to try to find solutions with our knowledge and create our new web portals that interface with our company data (if not all the data, obviously one part). It's hard, we don't have to fool ourselves, but it's possible for FWH programmers. We only try to find the best method to find solutions to this important issue. There are many trends, preferences, styles, languages, systems, solutions, and this topic is very exciting.

[reinaldocrespo]

For what's worth; by changing the RDD to ADS (NTX, CDX or ADT), you don't have to change much your current native app and you get to write PHP, Ruby, Phyton web apps that read/write the vary same data. You can change the source db and start using data that is stored on a server somewhere on a remote area of the world and not have to change your native app or web app either.

It is true that you can do the same with MySQL, but you would have to re-write a lot of current native app and learn a lot more. By simply switching to ADS RDD you have already begun on the way to learn RDB with SQL white keeping ISAM that you already know and love so much. Yes, there is still a learning curve.

When I begun learning SQL back in 2004 with ADS, I kept most of my ISAM, as in:

Code: Select all  Expand view  RUN

While !(cAlias)->( eof() )
   ...
   ( cAlias )->( Skip() )
End
 

The more and more SQL I learned and realize how much faster it executes, I slowly began to replace it for:

Code: Select all  Expand view  RUN

SELECT <fieldlist> FROM customers WHERE <condition>
 

When I needed some access via Web, I began learning PHP. My PHP web-apps work on the very same dbf data as my native apps.

In short; I can see the benefit of having native apps running from a remote database stored somewhere on the cloud and also share that same data with PHP/Ruby/Phyton web apps. There is no getting around the fact that we all need to learn some Web dev environment that is also capable of reading our current dbf data for most situations. I like ADS only because I still get to keep ISAM and the learning curve is less vertical.


Reinaldo.

[Otto]

Hello friends,

some of the discussion reminds me the days when we switched from DOS to WINDOWS.

The easiest way to start with web programming seems to me to be PHP.
But as soon as the application grows one would like to have a framework.
I looked at several.
But for me it is best to use TWeb with common syntax to me.
You get structured programs as you are used to.
I think everyone knows that you can use TWeb and PHP in parallel.
So you can just add finished PHP parts. TWeb is PHP.

Kind regards
Otto

[reinaldocrespo]

Hey Otto; can you show some code or how to use TWeb with PHP? Is there a link? I'm sorry I don't know about TWeb. I have been using PHP with ADS. I feel comfortable with PHP, if TWeb can make PHP easier/more useful, then I will want to learn more about TWeb.

Thank you,


Reinaldo.

[Otto]

Dear Reinaldo,
please see:



Best regards,
Otto

[shri_fwh]

Hi Otto ,

Below are the two WebGUI Framework
http://www.unigui.com/ This is Delphi Wrappers on Sencha GUI framework. If FWH has also same kind wrappers to Sencha or Other HTML GUI, probably https://dhtmlx.com/ that would be great.

https://vaadin.com/ This is Java Based Framework But this generate HTML pages at runtime.


Thanks
Shridhar

[Otto]

Please see:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35444

I bought a copy of dhtmlx and installed it on my server.
https://winhotel.space/planner/index.html

But at the end I choosed another program and bougth that component.
I use this component from TWeb.

Best regards,
Otto

[Jeff Barnes]

I've been working on a WebApp using pretty much standard harbour code using Lailtons FiveWeb.
It's been working well for me. I can use DBF's, ADT, SQL and works with ADS as well.
One of the nice things was that it did not take me long before I had a nice working app.

Any issues I've come across (ie: not knowing how to do some things) are answered quickly by Lailton.
Lots of sample files are also included with his FiveWeb.

It is defiantly worth looking into.

I will try and post some screen shots when I have a bit more time.

[Carlos Mora]

some of the discussion reminds me the days when we switched from DOS to WINDOWS.

Yes! that's exactly what i was thinking after reading this thread. We had lots of DOS code and several pseudo-magicals tools appeared to "show us" the way to Windows, with promises of turning our DOS screens into full windows. Even new compilers appeard like xBase++.
Other programmers thought they could stay in the DOS environment using graphic libraries like the one that came with Clipper itself.
And, finally, the only and real solution was to learn how to program for the Windows environment using the right tool, FW.
And there was no magic: our old dos programs were way better than out first windows apps. After years, many water passed down the bridge until we had a realiable XBrowse. ¿Do you remember?
Now we are in the same situation, we are affraid of the unknow and we have few clues of where things are going to.
Fortunately, several years ago I had to learn how to program web apps. There are lots of new stuff lo lean, but it is really amazing.
In any case you'll need at least learn some HTML and CSS. Some years ago I'd settled my bet for PHP, but now I think Javascript is the winning horse.

KR