Windows 8, FWH, and the future of programming

[TimStone]

I know this is "off topic" but it does relate to several threads already posted here, so I think this is the best place.

I just returned from attending the Visual Studio Live 2012 conference, and I would like to share some of the things I learned. I believe this may be helpful for future directions with FiveWin, and those of us who use this product.

First, the most important thing I learned is that the Windows development future is extremely fragmented. Its like trying to jump on a speeding train that keeps changing tracks and directions ! My point: For now, what you are doing will continue to be used for several years to come !

The changes that keep coming to Windows 8 have not slowed down. What worked under the developers edition is broken under the consumer beta, The feeling is that Metro will be good for slate/tablet development but not practical for the desktop. Look for Kinect for the PC to bring some functionality that makes a desktop workable with Metro.

Under Windows, there is no clear Microsoft path for development. However, the emphasis seems to be on these things: Cloud, HTML5, jQuery, oData, SQL, and mobility. The next year will be very fragmented. The User Interface is the target !

Windows 8 will place an emphasis on the WinRT and .NET ( 4.5 ). Although it will run x86 code in the desktop, the .NET platform will be the core for all program interface.

This seems to be a time of grand investigation, but it also is a time of confusion. Its like Microsoft is tossing a lot up in the air, watching where it lands, and looking to see who picks it up ! However, as it all comes together, the results will be incredible.

Finally, beware of anything published by Microsoft right now. Its all tentative ! Seriously. There are so many people, in so many departments, doing great things, but everything is subject to change !

As for FWH, no problems with the simulated Metro direction. In fact, programs like Visual Studio Lightswitch will create Metro look alike programs that run in Win 7 !

As for language, its C# all the way. Everything being done today is C#, XAML, HTML5, jQuery, CSS .... and the preferred windows programming method is WPF ( Windows Presentation Foundation ) for projects.

Tim

Tim

[Antonio Linares]

Tim,

Many thanks for sharing it with us

BTW, we have already started native support to Windows 8 Metro API and it is already available in FWH 12.03, published today:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23771

Its still early, but it is good to start learning the new concepts and keeping an eye on Windows 8 WinRT API possibilities

[TimStone]

Antonio,

I saw your posts. I had lots of chores today so I haven't downloaded the update yet.

My only concern right now is that you may be working with a moving target. We'll know more in the coming months. A lot of presenters at Build ( last summer ) were at this conference, and they say between Developer Preview and Consumer Beta, everything they had created was broken due to changes in the Win 8 OS. The next VS Live conference is in May, and they were all wondering what items they fixed for this meeting would be broken for the next !

As we look at FWH, it is clear that the focus in the next year will be utilizing Cloud services, SQL will be universal, and there is a new data protocal called oData. All other file formats may be inaccessible. Also SaaS will be the focus rather then desktop apps. It won't change overnight, but in the coming years we may see the normal desktop form type of application disappear.

Thanks for continuing your work. It is appreciated.

[Antonio Linares]

Tim,

What I like most about the future is that it is impossible to see it

So surely what it may happen is what nobody has been able to predict...

Yoda quotes

Impossible to see the future is

[norberto]

"is the future service is uncertain"

but that something is happening and something big is being done or planned...

I forgot: some speed tests were released, and the windows 8, although beta, windows 7 won on many items...

in july we have the beta, and in september, final release, beta marketplace is already open.

and i already registered : Windows 8 Marketplace Developer : Publisher : Norbertlf ISV ID: 1047079

Norberto

[Antonio Linares]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

[modicr]

Hello!

For now, what you are doing will continue to be used for several years to come !
...
As for language, its C# all the way. Everything being done today is C#, XAML, HTML5, jQuery, CSS .... and the preferred windows programming method is WPF ( Windows Presentation Foundation ) for projects.

Just some interesting quotes:
http://betanews.com/2012/03/17/does-win ... reativity/

Does Microsoft really appreciate the true GEM they have in the Windows API (WIN32)?
The Windows development world has moved from framework to framework over the years, starting with MFC to todays .NET. Yet software doesn't get better and better, but it is getting more bloated and resource hungry and actually slower. Yet I deal with a community of programmers who are constantly digging deeper and deeper into the Windows API, producing new and exciting products and tools that push the limits of the OS, while keeping the software so small that it can fit on a floppy disk and all using the pure Windows API.
...
Despite all the negativity, Metro is not the failure many would have us believe. It is something new and different, which in time will open up more possibilities, especially on tablet PC's. Also Microsoft was smart to leave us the desktop side of Windows, too, since it still is very important.
In reality, the problem is that Metro and the desktop are more like an "odd couple", with little in common. But like any good long-time marriage, the partners over time need to better blend together. The more separate they become, then the more likely they will divorce and we all know which one will suffer the most -- the desktop!
Maybe there is still hope for this unlikely marriage. Maybe the two can better appreciate the other and by the time Windows 8 is released, the two will become one. Thats my hope. Call me an optimist.

http://betanews.com/2012/03/20/has-prog ... t-its-way/

So it makes me wonder, what has become of programming today? Has programming really become easier today? Have we as programmers lost perspective? Do we even know how to code anymore?

BTW, it's not only C# - F# is becoming a language to watch: http://www.infoq.com/news/2012/03/LINQ-FSharp

While F# has always had access to the underlying libraries that make LINQ possible, F# 3 marks the first version where the LINQ syntax is actually supported. Like Visual Basic, F#’s LINQ supports aggregate functions such as count, sum, first, and last directly in the query. Also like VB, F# doesn’t require a trailing “select” clause. Instead all queries need to be inside an expression that begins with “query {“ and ends with a matching brace.
LINQ or Language Integrated Query is a SQL-like syntax originally developed for the research language Cω and eventually released in Visual Basic and C#. While distinct, it is conceptually similar to languages from 80’s and 90’s such as dBase and PowerBuilder.

http://blogs.rue89.com/mon-oeil/avec-in ... tranquille

Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future (Niels Bohr)

Best regards, Roman

[TimStone]

I was not being negative in my comments, or critical. I only wanted to point out that we are still in a very changing time, and I do expect to see continuing changes in Windows 8. My emphasis was what developers shared who built Win 8 apps ( WinRT ) with the September build ( Developers ) found significant changes in the actual beta released last month, and found their apps "broken".

I think Metro is a great option, as do many people with whom I spoke. However, it is not seen right now as the solution for all computing needs. It is a great solution for those items which respond to a touch screen, but in reality, intensive data entry on a desktop is not likely to be a touch screen involved task. Most people will not want to reach across a desk to touch prompts on a screen ... thats rather disruptive to work flow. Metro is great with touch screen but a bit more difficult with a mouse .... at least now.

Antonio, as you work on WinRT / Metro programming, remember that we will need controls that are touch screen responsive. That is where the value will lie.

Tim

[Antonio Linares]

I was not being negative in my comments, or critical. I only wanted to point out that we are still in a very changing time, and I do expect to see continuing changes in Windows 8. My emphasis was what developers shared who built Win 8 apps ( WinRT ) with the September build ( Developers ) found significant changes in the actual beta released last month, and found their apps "broken".

Totally agreed. I have spent more than three days reinstalling different Windows 8 versions, what a mess...

I installed the Consumer Preview version as I thought that it was the most evolved version, but surprisingly it said that it was not a "developer" version. So I moved back to the Developer Preview version. Then discovered that you can download Visual Studio 11 beta for Consumer Preview so I reinstalled the Consumer edition. And yes, there are many changes, and broken code... I think that a good design has to be backwards compatible and require minimum changes. When a design requires many changes then it means that it is not a good design yet.

I think Metro is a great option, as do many people with whom I spoke. However, it is not seen right now as the solution for all computing needs. It is a great solution for those items which respond to a touch screen, but in reality, intensive data entry on a desktop is not likely to be a touch screen involved task. Most people will not want to reach across a desk to touch prompts on a screen ... thats rather disruptive to work flow. Metro is great with touch screen but a bit more difficult with a mouse .... at least now.

Totally agreed

Antonio, as you work on WinRT / Metro programming, remember that we will need controls that are touch screen responsive. That is where the value will lie.

I think that Otto way to go is the right one: For now, lets simulate this and lets assimilate it. Then progresively lets try to use it in a native way using WinRT standard touch controls, etc.

[TimStone]

Even LightSwitch, a neat Visual Studio true RAD tool, use a Metro template to get the look and feel, but it runs in Win 7.

You want to use Consumer Preview and be sure you let windows auto update. The feeds with fixes and improvements are daily. Then download and use Visual Studio 11 Beta (free) .

The developers edition should be timed out now.

I'm thinking the rumored Sept/Oct release of Win 8 may be postponed. Every developer I met last week was fine with that. The blogs are also in no hurry. They don't want a repeat of Vista. I think we all know that technology advancements can be amazing but cannot be rushed. Timelines kill ! Ask Apple ... The New iPad could have used some more time.

[Antonio Linares]

In these days where there are so many choices, and everyone promises the moon, more than ever I remember this great Clipper add as it is a real compass