New controls for FWH

[RAMESHBABU]

Mr.Marco,

I have downloaded the Sqlite.zip from your site. When I tried to compile Sqlite.C, it was generating some errors.
What is the compiler you are using ? Harbour or xHarbour ?

Can you please send the SQLITEC.OBJ ?
My mail ID is aksharasoft@live.com

Regards,

- Ramesh Babu P

[Marco Turco]

The lib is compiled with xHarbour 1.2.1, if you (and other users) are using a different version or Harbour you simply need to download the lib source from http://www.sqlite.org/download.html (sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_23_1.zip) and make the lib.

[RAMESHBABU]

Mr.Marco,

Thank you very much, I could already compile Sqlite.C with my version of xHarbour. And I could compile TEST.EXE
The proble was with the include path.

Regards,

- Ramesh Babu P

[Antonio Linares]

Marco,

So what is missing from that sqlite.c ?

More features support ?

[Marco Turco]

Hi Antonio,
the sqlite class (ssbbs) is ready to be used, I'm already testing it and it seems bugs free.
The firebird class (harbour cvs) is not complete and there are also some bugs.

The question is that me (and the other FWH programmers in this thread) don't want and haven't the time to scan the harbour cvs to check upgrades or bug fix for the Firebird class. The future of the sqlite class is also not clear because it has been developed by ssbbs that provided me the source - for free - but it hasn't released the code rights to the public domain for some questions that I can explain to you in private if you want.

So, we would like that you stop the develop of other graphics components and "exotic" features because we don't need at this moment facebook buttoms, skin buttoms, shadows etc. but that you simply put the Fivetech development target on the database management. We need the Sqlite class and Firebird class as STANDARD FIVEWIN CLASS provided and manteined from you and integrated with the correlated class (xBrowse, tdatabase for example).

As I said, the fact that Sqlite and Firebird can operate as RBDMS in local mode without a server so with the advanteges of the dbf architecture and also as client/server remove any advantage to still use DBFs.

[Antonio Linares]

Marco,

I fully respect your point of view and we are going to do our best to support you on this issue, but also please keep in mind that FiveWin is mainly a GUI library.

Sqlite support should become part of Harbour/xHarbour. I think that is the right way to do it.

We should review what there is available from Harbour itself and what is missing, and encourage the entire Harbour developers team to provide support for sqlite.

[Marco Turco]

"I fully respect your point of view and we are going to do our best to support you on this issue, but also please keep in mind that FiveWin is mainly a GUI library. "

But it seem you are developing also the sqlwin rdd as part of FWH or I'm wrong ?
.. and there are also various FWH class not GUI related.

There are a lot of classes in the harbour/xharbour contrib folder never finished and buggy,
we can have a warranty of stability of the the Sqlite and Firebird classes only if you embed them in FWH and dealing you directly with the authors - if any - .

As I said we need to do business not the [x]harbour beta tester.

[Antonio Linares]

Marco,

SQLWIN does not belong to FWH. It was a seed for an open source SQL rdd but it did not received much attention. Its full source code is available from here: http://wiki.fivetechsoft.com/doku.php?i ... evelopment

Sincerelly, we believe that the database management tools should be part of the Harbour project. The Harbour contrib tools are buggy only if they are not used and thus not debugged. But if they become widely accepted and used then they evolve and improve.

So the key for getting a bug free tool is that it becomes used by many developers. This is why if a tool belongs to Harbour itself then it will receive the highest attention and users base. Restricting it to FiveWin users will just reduce the amount of potential users that it can get.

[vilian]

Marcos,

I agree with you, FWH long ago, is no just a GUI. Antonio Underestimates FWH.

FWH already has an excellent set of controls. What we need now is a robust resource for access to databases Client / Server.

The management of the database is the most important function of every application, so it's getting complicated depending on voluntary contributions.

I think they add a feature like this in FWH would be decisive for its future as a development tool.

[Antonio Linares]

Vilian, Marco,

Harbour itself is the result of voluntary contributions and we all use it for our daily work. Nobody doubt about its superb quality

For an open source project the key to success is the amount of users and the interest about a product.

For a commercial product the key to success is the invested money (time, workers, effort) into it and the profit returned to the company investment.

[Marco Turco]

For a commercial product the key to success is the invested money (time, workers, effort) into it and the profit returned to the company investment.

Perfectly agree,
so you could develop and mantein a FWH database module to sell as add-on to the FWH users
A lot of works is alredy done.

I am sure that if you provide an add-on that embed the Sqlite and Firebird class in FWH with xBrowse and tDatabase support you will IMMEDIATLY return of any sums and time invested - try to ask to the forum users.

As Vilian said, "The management of the database is the most important function of every application, so it's getting complicated depending on voluntary contributions. " and no word would be clearer.

[vilian]

Antonio,

When we suggested to take Fivetech resource development for native access to database, please take this as a demonstration of the confidence we have in your company and your ability to do so.

I really believe. Include in FWH resource for native access to databases would be important to an even greater commercial success.

[xProgrammer]

Hi all

Historically xBase language products made data base access easy in that

1 it was restricted to a single data base file structure (dbf), and

2. access to that data base was built into the language

And, of course, it was all character based.

The language was beautifully structured and supported both self extension and extension through C language interface. This is how we now have support for graphical interface - FiveWin, FiveLinux etc (and others). They map to different windows managers - FiveWin to native Windows calls, FiveLinux to GTK+ but there are other options including QT. Or indeed character based drivers of various sorts.

Well similarly there is a wide range of possibilities in the data base area. From continuing to use dbf files through a myriad of alternative data bases both stand alone and client server as well as applications that don't use a data base at all or have needs that are met by xml files rather than a data base. I don't think you can generalise that most / nearly all FiveWin users will want to opt for a single data base solution integrated into FiveWin. As Antonio said you are more likely to reach a critical mass if you try to band together all Harbour / xHarbour users that wish to go for a particular data base solution than trying to keep within the FiveWin community. And how you access your data base and how you display things to the user should be largely independant of each other.

In my experience dbfs are fine for stand alone use and for fast local area networks. Beyond that you need to use a client server solution. That can still be dbf based (as in my case) but for most people that probably means a non Harbour based data base manager accessed through a query language (probably SQL). Regardless some of the data base navigation logic that was traditionally handled on the client has to be handled on the server (minimising network traffic) and so in most cases will require a shift in your programming paradigm.

If you need a client server solution then any solution that merely translates typical xBase code to SQL queries is unlikely to solve any performance issue, your code needs to change and you need to embrace a new paradigm. It is, however, possible to split the xBase code so that data navigation / selection is performed on the server side.

Regards
xProgrammer

[Antonio Linares]

Marco, Vilian,

I really feel honoured for your trust in FIveTech and me.

We are going to review this sqlite issue and see what we can do

[Marco Turco]

I don't think you can generalise that most / nearly all FiveWin users will want to opt for a single data base solution integrated into FiveWin.

I perfectly agree with your point of view, as proposed to Antonio,
the users that - as you - still prefer working using DBFs, directly in local/small net and using thirth part components (Mediator, SqlRdd, AdoRdd and the various charbour contrib libs) to manage big network could continue to do this.

The users that - as me - see as a great opportunity the possibility to have a single database architecture that can works either in local (totally self-contained) and client/server environment could buy a dedicated FWH Database Add-on.

So, we can stay all happy