FiveDBU for 32/64 bits

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Otto,

We have pushed and developed Classes to provide a Metro GUI alike look and feel to FWH apps, but as you know, thats just a temporary solution. Our samples\touch.prg shows a quite complete solution, that was published in April.

The fact is that for some of you that may have a real need to move to Metro, then you have to say goodbye to Harbour and FWH as they are not valid solutions to develop true Windows Metro apps.

Its a paradox, but if you really need to go to Windows 8, then you will have to drop all your code, your development tools and start from zero... I think that will be a real and very good reason to say no to Windows 8 Metro.

Microsoft is breaking its continuity, shooting themselves in the feet, and make us think that supporting and using Windows as it was and is, for so many years, was a mistake. Ouch!

[Otto]

Hello Gale,
one last question from me on this topic.
I am not clear which point of view are you supporting: this from a software-company whose business is to sell software or that of a software user?
Best regards,
Otto

[Otto]

Dear Antonio,
I think you are wrong on this. We are speaking of totally 2 different things.
I am speaking of MetroStyle you from the OS windows 8.

Best regards,
Otto

[Antonio Linares]

Otto,

What I mean is that your app is not a true Windows 8 Metro app. It will not run on a Windows 8 tablet or phone, as it is a Metro Style simulation that uses Win32 API and not the new WinRT that Metro provides.

If you really go for Windows 8 then you have to drop ALL that you have and start all over again from zero...

Doesn't sound as a clever choice...

[norberto]

Antonio now touched on a point that I've been pounding makes time: Metro uses Winrt, we need a new FiveRT to make native programs, or is being a metro simulation. to make native RT we can use : C++ C#, HTML5 or javascript, or Fivewin compiled and adapted for WINRT.

WIndows 8 is a great opportunity for new businesses, but we need to learn to work as apple store, we'll have that in the register as developers, send our programs to microsoft for approval and be purchased from the APP HUB ...

According to Steve balmer, no matter what area you work, we have a new business opportunity with windows 8, but we need adapt to new mode.

I started trying to use fivewin classes for metro, but gave up because I realized it would be trying to simulate metro, and it would be a waste of time, because even though it looks like metro, not would run on tablets, metro mode, or smartphones.

Metro and very intuitive, innovative, but I think we try to simulate it would be a waste of time, we have 2 options: Antonio make us a fivert or move to visual studio 11.

WIndows xp support is over... new times is about mobility, tablets, smartphones, touch screen, we need new directions or see our clients migrate to whom the support these new technologies.

someone here is registered in App hub? I am : Windows 8 Marketplace Developer Publisher : Norbertlf ISV ID: 1047079 , time to make it or leave...

even if windows 8 is an error, many are going to cloud, using azure, or ios to use ipad, or even android.

[Antonio Linares]

Norberto,

The point is that Harbour does not run on WinRT. We will need a new Harbour and that will require a long development time.

Unless there are many developers that push it, and really need it, it will not happen.

If you start reading Windows 8 Programming book you'll see that is a whole new world. Is like coding for the iphone. You have to start from zero again. Its a very risky situation...

[Otto]

Dear Antonio,
I reread your post again and again but I do not understand what you like to say me.
I am 100% satisfied with FiveWin. The language model fits so well in this new situation.
This metro simulation is working perfect and I think also for years.
We have all we need now and I am 100% secure that you will find a way that we can use WinRT instaed of s Win32 API .
But now we have to change our personal style how we design software. Learn this different thinking how software should operate (FULLSCREEN).
The new Metro-classes are very good.
Now more of us should start using them. We should proof them in real world applications, finish the classes and program the missing parts. Ad hoc I am thinking on print preview or maybe scrollbar?
And we do not know how to substitute MDI, Treeview best.
I thought FiveDBU would be the best demonstration application how a Metro Style dBase editor could look.
This is completely virgin soil.
As far as I know there is not DBU in Metro Style available by now. So FiveWin could be the first delivering this.
That was what I dreamed.
Friendship,
Otto

[Antonio Linares]

When many Windows developers realize that they have to drop all their applications and know how, to push Windows 8 risky and quite absurd adventure, then you will understand why many companies are saying no to Windows 8 Metro...

Microsoft may create a new OS is they want to, but never push developers to drop what they have been building for so many years.

This crazy proposal from Microsoft will hurt Windows and will benefit Apple and Linux. Surely Microsoft will continue its dominant situation mainly because users will remain using Windows 7 and wanting Steve Ballmer to leave the company...

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Otto,

Its fine if you want to simulate the Metro look using FiveWin Touch classes. But we are not going to push ourselves towards this untested and unaccepted yet Metro model.

We want to keep using MDI windows, trees, and lot more. ALL that we have been using for years and worked so well.

For those of you that enjoy the Metro look, go ahead and use it. Surely you are the right one to modify FiveDBU source code and provide a Metro alike version of it

[norberto]

Antonio, I know that, and I understand you, I'm just saying, that despite the work in Metro classes be great, despite being identical WInrt Metro, will not run on windows-based tablets 8 RT, but only in desktop mode, dont have live tiles, etc...

as you said, it's another world. FWH today meets my needs, but if I want to do real "Metro", I need harbourRT+FiveRT or visual studio 11.

best regards

[Antonio Linares]

Norberto,

I fully agree with you

Now, go to the Harbour developers list and ask there for a WinRT based Harbour and see how many developers support you...

Thats the key on an open source tool.

[Otto]

Dear Antonio,
Thank you for your clear words.
Best regards,
Otto

[norberto]

Antonio, if you will allow me to disagree about windows 8, I think that windows 8 will be a success, but the dictate goes: "the future is to work be uncertain", who live will see.

We must not forget that every pc bought from today until January 1 turns an update of 14US$ to windows 8.
Windows 8 has a set of IT management reinforced, companies want that.

I see on the forum of harbour that are very anxious to develop with Android, but it has already been proven that the money's not android developer, and 90% of the fortune 100 list use IOS or will migrate to windows phone or windows 8.

but changing the subject to something more technical, you and practically the father of harbour, harbour is written in C, it would be very difficult to compile again with c #? It would take more years it took to be done? only curiosity.

thanks for your attention, im done with this post, back to fivedbu....

[Antonio Linares]

Norberto,

The problem is that C# uses a virtual machine and Harbour also uses a virtual machine. So having two virtual machines does not make sense and the result can be slow...

So whats the solution ? To develop a Harbour version that uses C# virtual machine and not Harbour's one. I already proposed this years ago wanting to have a Java version of Harbour, but there was not support from others developers. I even published some little examples of a Harbour that used the .NET virtual machine.

The problem is that when we developed Harbour we did not had this in mind, so we did not tested every single Harbour virtual machine feature against Java or .NET virtual machine. And now it may be a huge work to get this done. See how many years Harbour needed to get matured and 100% stable...

I don't think you will find many developers wanting to support this and having the required tech skills to participate in such difficult work.

[norberto]

The microsoft marketing machine onramp: companies that already are adopting windows 8 RP , published today:

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bu ... iness.aspx